The article was originally posted on DeepFocus in Chinese with 12,000 views.
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Ca1KRuAn9w6_3IO7bLfKpA
2018-10-09
Interviewer: Jiexiao Ying

Yesterday, 22-year-old director ZHU Xin had the world premiere of his debut feature Vanishing Days(2018) at the New Current section of Busan International Film Festival. During the Q&A after the screening, he asked the crew members scattered in the audience to stand up. The audience realized that the whole crew is composed of “kids” in their early twenties.

As director ZHU Xin said, “I hope to make a movie while I am a child.” This film made by “children” has a touch of vulnerability, like memories transmitted from a malfunctioned signal station and traveled far in time. Facing the childhood which always feels obscure and out of focus, ZHU Xin wants to “pick up the lens of camera, and look at children’s world with more clarity.”

Vanishing Days is the illusional reflection of ZHU Xin’s real life. It is full of memories and fantasies about his hometown, Hangzhou. What is it about? The logline might give you some idea: Set in the summer of 2009 in a riverside southern Chinese town, before the shower arrives. While Li Senlin lacks inspiration for her essay, Auntie Qiu, a long absent relative and boat-woman reappears in her house and narrates an adventure of an uninhabited island… However, we may not want to summarize a film, the same way you don’t want to hold a river in palm, or lift a wandering ghost. Vanishing Days is like a fog, through which you may return to your age of innocence and curiosity. You will re-experience your childhood, while exploring something new.

The following is an exclusive interview with director ZHU Xin before Busan IFF by DeepFocus. (Zumaca)

Q: YING Jiexiao, DeepFocus Film Critic

Q: Vanishing Days is your first feature film, why did you want to tell this story and set the story in Hangzhou, your hometown?

ZHU Xin: I am currently 22-years-old and have not lived anywhere else besides Hangzhou. The hospital that I was born in is merely a couple streets away from my home now. I didn’t explore a lot of places as a child growing up so it was quite a mundane experience. Hangzhou is a very densely-populated city and to me it always felt like a small park. I hope to use the film to return to my days of childhood. The film is also like a small park, it allows me to imagine, create, and take paths that lead me to the unknown future.

I worked with DAI Ying on the script together. It started with a story that she told me about an auntie that she was acquainted with. Somehow I had trouble falling asleep that night after listening to the story, as if suddenly recalling a memory. We then started writing a script with thirty scenes – it was incomplete but the shoot began nonetheless. We would revise and shoot at the same time, therefore it was quite different from an industry-standard production. Of course, there were also a number of reasons from an objective standpoint, which supported why we had to complete the shooting in Hangzhou. But speaking from the story’s standpoint, I don’t see there being any restrictions.

Q: Bi Gan’s Kaili Blues is a low-budget director-driven film that saw great success. Vanishing Days has a much smaller budget than Kaili Blues, you must have conquered many obstacles to complete this production.

ZHU Xin: It’s difficult to say, it wasn’t all that easy. The budget for the pre-production was very small. I borrowed 20,000RMB (3,000 USD) from my parents and spent a few thousand RMB doing re-shoots later. We spent no more than 30,000RMB (4,400 USD) in total. A limited budget also led to a string of issues afterwards, including very tight schedules.

When we started shooting, we spent several days dressing the set. The apartment that was our main shooting location was not far from where I lived, I would bike over and linger there to contemplate on the set design. In the beginning, there was barely anything in the apartment. The producer wasn’t a big fan of spending money on the props, so we’d sift through dumpsters downstairs or borrow items from other peoples’ homes, so to keep the costs at a minimum. For a few days, we hung out with garbage collectors in the apartment complex and picked out used bed frames and tables from the trash. I also consulted my friend, who was studying Stage Design in Italy, on a number of important decisions. Though we spent a lot of effort on the set dressing, we didn’t have to spend as much in money.

In August 2016, we were filming for one week and actually spent six shoot days. It was quite intense as we would shoot from morning to night, and do re-shoots for scenes a couple days afterwards. I then went on a hiatus for a year. During this year, I was not in touch with anyone besides the scriptwriter and went scouting for locations by myself. It was a pretty tough year for me. I had to face the whole project by myself and didn’t really have anyone to talk to. Those around me didn’t really know what I was up to either.

In the second year I got everything together and organized three days of shooting. The entire film took no more than two weeks to shoot in actuality. At the start of the summer I called over my producer, WANG Jingyuan, and did pick-up shots for three days. We spent a whole day at the Thousand Islands, lake from morning to night, and arrived back to Hangzhou by dawn the next day. The crew was completely exhausted. I would like to thank everyone for their dedication on that day.

I was a sophomore in college at that time, and haven’t received any formal training in film yet. I learned a little about commercial shooting from the advertising classes, but did not have enough experience otherwise. However I didn’t want to wait any longer, for a few more years to become more mature and seasoned and then to begin filming. I didn’t feel that the so-called professionalism was the most important element of the equation. If I adopted the industry-standard way of production, maybe the film would have been presented better. But for how the film stands right now, I hold no regrets for anything.

I have more stories that I’d like to shoot in the future, and they bear a broader context than Vanishing Days; it will no longer be a park, but a square. As the story changes, it will also affect the way that we work with it.

Q: You weren’t even 20-years-old when you first started filming, for a feature film, isn’t that a little too young?

ZHU Xin: As a child, I always enjoyed talking about things that felt unexplainable or ambiguous, and now that I talk about them again at an older age, I attach the same kind of childhood reverie.

What’s key is that with time, things will become obscure and perhaps forgotten. In the past, technology was restricted by many more factors, which would render it very difficult or almost impossible for someone my age – at twenty-years old – to create or produce something like this.

Why does the work of a child have to force in elements of adulthood? Throughout the development of the film industry, no child has had the opportunity to make their own film. I hope to have the chance to achieve this. I believe that everyone’s childhood is one of a kind. Like the view that we have, sitting on the steps outside of a classroom; it is unique and only belongs to us.

Vanishing Days is a very bold challenge. Regardless of how much it may achieve, I have my full trust and heart in this work. I may no longer be able to make such a film in this present day. In that sense, it’s also like an ode of farewell. From this point onwards, I will make a new film. To exaggerate this a little, it is something immortal, a merely transient existence.

Q: Hangzhou is also my hometown and I can feel a strong sense of it within the film. I like the scenes of LI Senlin lying on the floor, eating watermelon and enjoying the cool air of the fan, or learning to roller skate, or buying turtles at the market. This is like a story about summer.

ZHU Xin: I wanted to create a story about summer, as my summers were always spent in an unconventional way. When I was writing the script, I would stare at the

dilapidated furniture at home, which has not been touched for over twenty years and was still kept by my father. Some pieces were stringed into the script by me and became a prop. Those pieces may not be integral to the story, but they were introduced little by little.

Take the example of the jumping ropes. I used them while preparing for the Physical Education section of the high-school entrance examination. I have to complete 180 jumps per minute in order to pass, therefore I had to practice everyday. I remember practicing in the hallways of our apartment and a lot of aunties would walk by and chit chat with my mom. The circular motion of the jumping ropes helps to create this enclosure that only belongs to me. I start from a place that I’m familiar with, this way I can have it under control. I decided on the initial aura of the film and all the other elements came surfacing slowly.

Q: In the movie, the demarcation between life and death almost does not exist. We see LI Senlin (female) living her youth and enjoying a watermelon in the summer heat, and we also see aunties and uncles laying down wreaths, the supernatural moments of the dead people running, and the suddenly mystified body.

ZHU Xin: Three years ago, I was backpacking in Varanasi in India. On my last day there, I came across an unusual scene near the Ganges – it was the burning ghat. A male corpse, who died of a sudden mystery, was being carried to the riverbank. No one knew of his identity nor did anyone come forward to claim the corpse, therefore he couldn’t be covered in a white cloth – like everyone else – but instead had to be burnt as a naked dead body, and then to have his ashes thrown into the river. That was the first time that I confronted death so directly in the eye.

From my memory, his body felt like a dark vortex, sinking ever so slowly and heavily into the river until disappearance. I don’t dare to recall any other detail, for there was something so sharp from that experience that it pierced me through. The vanishing bodies, and as they travel in space, become a phantom that cannot be ignored.

And the reason that death is so important is because it makes me become, without reservation, a self that is vulnerable, sensitive, and frank.

Q: The film featured a number of familiar surroundings besides Hangzhou, such as the Thousand Islands Lake and Laohe Mountain. How did you select these locations?

ZHU Xin: What makes Hangzhou the most special for me is that its residential areas and attraction sights are in the same vicinity and at the same time it is a very

developed city. I mentioned previously that Vanishing Days is like a park, actually it’s like map of Hangzhou that I drew by myself. Before the filming started, I hand-drew a map of all the shooting locations. If we go over the mountain (the peak is the Laohe Mountain, with Yellow Dragon cave in the middle, and edited into a few other landscapes), then you see a small island (Thousand Islands Lake), they are all interconnected and forming freely.

Q: When I was watching Vanishing Days, I could feel the moist in the air. LI Senlin (female) says that her father carries an aroma of water vapors, and follows him into a hot spring where she fell and got soaking wet. Auntie Qiu runs boats on the Great Canal. The murderer jumps into the Great Canal at the end. Everything seems to have a connection with water.

ZHU Xin: I grew up in the south of China, which is known for its waters. A lot of my childhood memories possess moisture. I used to play near the Great Canal and my grandma would order that I make one full circle around the river everyday from morning to noon, or else I wouldn’t be allowed to go home. I also had an incident where I almost drowned in a park. I fell into a big puddle of water and couldn’t catch my breath or make any sound and became so dumbfounded. Only after a couple minutes did someone arrive on the scene and saved me. There is a collection of memories about water and they emerge in accordance to the weather.

I really like Tsai Ming Liang’s The River, as it is truly a masterpiece. It’s the most touching film I’ve seen which involves an escalator and a father. I really hope to make a film that feels full of water vapors. Water is such a painterly element and I think it ought to exist in the film.

Q: The cast in Vanishing Days was all non-actors, right? How did you select them, and how did you portray them so exactly in the film?

ZHU Xin: My mom was my history teacher in middle school. When I was preparing for the film, she spent a lot of time helping with the casting, including from her circle of friends, students, colleagues, and parents. It was a very interesting selection process.

Senlin (JIANG Li) is a student of my mother’s. It was my mom’s first recommendation as she said that Jiang had a very strong desire to perform. I went to the little girl’s home and talked with her parents. Her parents asked what the direction of the film was and along the way also gave me some life advice. I let them know that I would try my best to make the film and it alleviated their worries. During the whole shoot her mother would accompany her. My mother would also sometimes help out on set, and the girl would still refer to her as “teacher”. There was something that felt slightly out of place and magical about it.

Xiao Bo is a science teacher who taught me during middle school, so we are well acquainted with each other. We rehearsed for one whole night in a lab room and we started filming. Auntie Qiu is my producer’s mother. The mother in the film is the former classmate to my mother.

I communicated often with them and it was overall quite smooth. But I wasn’t trying to make them understand the whole film, as they didn’t have a clue what the story was about from the beginning to end, but rather I tried to figure out what they were thinking and feeling. What’s important for me is that after we interact, I gain a better understanding of them and during their performance I can cater more to their personalities, therefore to help conform to the feel of the film. For example, Auntie Qiu was very nervous with Senlin on the first day of the shoot but they developed a closer relationship as the shoot progressed.

Q: Was the aerospace story [that was inserted into the subtitles] actually the essay written by Hongqi?

ZHU Xin: Yes. The scriptwriter liked playing Command & Conquer: Red Alert when she was young, the “Kirov” airship within Hongqi’s essay share the same name as the one in the video game.

At the end, the little girl should be looking at the whole tale from high above; just like drawing the map of Hangzhou, she could only see the whole map if she takes off into the skies. It was also hinted during the film that she very much hoped to be on the airship, even if it meant fighting with her brother. She finally gets her wish fulfilled through the essay.

I hope that when the audience watches the film, even if there are no flying scenes, they could still feel so in their hearts. Her wish to fly was realized through her essay and I hope I could make it possible to fly through my film as well.

二十岁，为杭州记忆和童年狂想拍一部电影

昨天，22岁的祝新带着他的处女作《漫游》在釜山电影节新浪潮单元进行了世界首映。放映结束后的问答时间里，他请散布在观众席中的剧组工作人员们纷纷起立，在场观众可能这才发现，这个剧组几乎无一不是二十岁出头的“小孩子”。

正如他自己说“希望有⼀次机会以⼩孩的⾝份拍电影”，这部“小孩们”拍摄的电影有一种独特的脆弱感，仿佛由久远以前的接触不良的信号传送而来的回忆。面对仿佛失焦的童年，祝新“用电影把掉落的镜片捡起来，慢慢看清身旁的世界”。

《漫游》是祝新真实生活的幻影，充满着他对杭州这座城市的记忆和狂想。究竟说了什么？官方资料可能给你一个这样的解释：零九年的夏天阵雨将至，李森林作文没有灵感，多年未曾谋面的船工秋秋阿姨突然造访，她道出了荒岛上的奇遇……然而，我们或许不该去总结一部电影，就像不该试图捧起一条河流，扶起一个幽魂，《漫游》像一团漂浮的迷雾，穿过它你可能回到天真意趣，面对着这自己的童年，同时又在经历着什么全新的东西。

以下，是深焦DeepFocus在釜山电影节前对祝新导演进行的专访内容。

（朱马查）

采访⼈ | 应婕晓

编辑 | 冬生

深焦：《漫游》是你的第一部长片，为什么会选择讲这样一个故事，又为什么会在家乡杭州拍这个故事？

祝新：我今年22岁，但⼀直没离开过杭州，我出⽣的医院跟我家就⼀两条街的距离，所以我童年的活动范围很⼩。杭州是个⼈⼜这么密集的城市，在我的脑海⾥它更像是⼀个⼩公园，我希望《漫游》回到我的⼩时候，这个⽚⼦也像⼀个公园，让我去遥想、杜撰的公园，还有很多条能⾛进未知领域的⼩路。

编剧⼯作是我和戴莹⼀起完成的。她给我讲了⼀个来⾃她⾝边阿姨的⼩故事，我听到故事的那个晚上睡不好觉，好像回想起了什么。于是我们写了⼀个30场戏的不完整剧本，就开始拍了，然后边拍边想边改，和传统⼯业制作不⼤⼀样。当然是有很多客观上的因素决定了我们也只能在杭州完成它，不过就这个故事来讲，我觉得这些都不是什么限制。

深焦：毕赣《路边野餐》也是⼀个⼩成本 “现象级”的作者电影。事实上《漫游》的预算⽐《野餐》还要⼩很多，这么⼩的成本，要完成制作，想必你克服了很多困难。

祝新：这个其实不好讲，有点倒苦⽔。这个⽚前期预算很⼩，我问我爸妈借了两万块块，后⾯补拍⾃⼰出了⼏千块，成本只有三万不到。从成本上出现困难之后，就出现了⼀系列困难，周期排得⾮常紧张。拍摄第⼀年，置景⽤了两三天。拍摄的房⼦离我家没多少路，我就骑⾃⾏车过去，经常待在那⾥想怎么布置，那⾥⾯原来基本是空的。制⽚不希望在道具上花太多的钱，我们就从楼下垃圾堆捡，或者别⼈家⾥借来，没有什么花钱买的道具。

我们花了⼏天和社区收垃圾的⼈周旋，从废物堆⾥捡了⼀点旧的床架、桌⼦。我找了在意⼤利读舞台设计的朋友，帮我⼀起做和参谋。置景花了很多精⼒，但是没怎么花钱。2016年8⽉份拍了⼀周，刚好七天，实际拍了六天，⾮常紧张，从早拍到晚。拍完又单独补拍了⼀两天；之后歇了⼀年，在这⼀年时间，我除了和编剧以外，没有和任何别⼈沟通，⾃⼰⼀个⼈看场地。

那⼀年我过得蛮痛苦的，⼀个⼈⾯对整个项⽬，没有交流，⾝边的⼈也不知道我在做什么事情。第⼆年我铆⾜了劲安排拍了三天，所以这个⽚总共实拍⽤了半个⽉不到吧。暑假刚开头，把制⽚⼈王靖渊叫过来，补拍了三天。千岛湖整个场景就拍了⼀天，从早到晚，回到杭州已经第⼆天清晨了，剧组⼈员都临近崩溃，在这边我特别感谢那天所有倾尽全⼒的朋友。

那时我只有⼤⼆，还没有接受任何正统的电影教育，我在⼴告班学过⼀些商业拍摄，没有充⾜的经验。但是我完全不想等等再拍，不想再过⼏年，等我⽼⼀点再去拍故事。我觉得那些所谓专业的东西不是最主要的。如果换⼀个更符合电影⼯业的模式制作，⽚⼦可能可以更好地呈现。但是我觉得以现在的⽚⼦状态，我不存在什么遗憾。在未来我还有更多想拍的故事，是⽐《漫游》更宽阔的故事，不再是⼀个公园，⽽是⼀个⼴场。故事变了，⼯作的⽅式可能也得变化。

深焦：所以其实你真正开始拍这个片子时候，你还不到20岁，对于一部长片不会太年轻吗？

祝新：我特别喜欢⼩时候说不清道不明的事，长⼤后重新说⼀遍，同样保持着当时的梦幻。最重要的是，再晚⼏年，有些东西会混淆和忘记。以前电影技术被很多框架限制，可能没有办法让我这个年纪的创作者，⼆⼗岁，做这样的东西。为什么⼀部⼩孩的东西，⼀定要裹挟成⼈的东西进去呢？

电影⼯业发展到现在，⼏乎没有⼩孩⼦有机会拍⾃⼰电影，我希望有⼀次机会以⼩孩的⾝份拍电影。我觉得童年是独⼀⽆⼆的。就像我们⼀起坐着的阶梯教室，这个视⾓是独⼀⽆⼆的。《漫游》是⼀个很⼤胆的尝试，不管做到什么程度，我对它都是肯定的，现在我不⼀定能拍这样的电影。它也是⼀次告别。从这个点开始，我要做⼀部新的电影。夸张点来说，它是不朽的，短暂的存留。

深焦：据说，字幕上打着的“新木电影制作团队”和你一样年轻？

祝新：新木是我哥们召集了杭州一批高中留学生做的一个兴趣小组，一个电影团体。大家对于电影都没什么了解，都是凭着兴趣来干，或者是喜欢团队工作。特别想感谢他们，我是因为这个团队才第一次接触到电影的。大概是四年前的样子，读大学前夕，才知道电影是什么，拍电影大概是怎么回事。

《漫游》之前的几年，我们做了一些可爱的短片和广告。这么多年后，这个群体里的大家基本各奔东西，有几个好朋友，也就是这片中的两个制片人以及摄影指导、美术、场务留了下来，人数不多，但是我跟他们说我想拍部电影试试看，他们感兴趣就留下来跟我一起做了《漫游》。

摄影章炜借了我摄影器材，我在器材包括灯光方面没有花太多钱。拍了三天之后，我觉得灯光租太多了，就只留下了小体积的LED，他在这方面帮了很多忙。摄影掌机有好几人，一半是美院的同学，一半是新木认识的。他们大部分都是跟了我一到两天，帮我完成了一部分内容的掌机。第一个摄影中途有事，我就赶紧找另一个同学来帮忙。

我们这个团队是蛮神奇的，几乎全都是义务劳动，有时候连车钱饭钱都没得报销。除了我是全身心投入，新木的大家都是业余时间来帮忙，也不计较什么排名、功劳，只是想要把片子做完做好，很多事情大家商量着谁有空谁就去做了。我觉得在团队里面工作特别开心，以后大家毕业走上社会，也不太会有机会再这样子做片子，所以这次一定要把名字写上去。

深焦：影片拍完之后，最初出现在大家视野里是入选了张献民老师的“十荐”。他是你的第一个观众吗？

祝新：不是的。为了给女主角姜郦的同学一个交代，给同学们看看她的表演，我把九十多分钟的粗剪放给初中的同学们看。整个片子放完大家都特别精神，而且看完之后狂鼓掌。有好几个小朋友特别感动，说他们都经历过，比如手脚扒住门框爬上去，吹圆珠笔，还有整个片子对生命的怀疑，像他们小时候会提出的问题。

对我来说，这个片子就像是抛出去的小石头。我很快乐地感受到，他们也有这样的感受，和我一样敏感，只是没有说出来。

第二天，我妈告诉我有个学生连夜写了一两万字的影评，包括很详细的人物分析、剧情解读，以及她自己的感受，对片子的评价。我觉得一定要到很喜欢片子的程度才会这样吧，写得非常好。这个学生讲到了一些很私人的体会，片子中表现得比较隐晦，我没有指望一个小孩子能看的这么细致。

当时三个年级的同学都来了，状态特别精神，反倒是老师们比较萎靡，有些中场离去了。小朋友都一口气看完了，我反而就不在乎后面的观众们会看睡着了。

给张献民老师的版本是去年底截稿的。我在微博上看到征集的最后一天，没做完赶紧发一个粗剪发过去。我决定给外面的人看一下，张老师是我很信任的人，完全不认识他，但是我觉得他会了解片子要讲什么。没想到张老师会认可，尽管他也表示完全没有看懂片子在讲什么。我这边特别想谢谢张老师，影响过我支持我的人们。

后来因为这个我跑到北京，在那里遇到了成熟的电影工作者，就我一个小孩。我第一次接触到很正式的对于电影很尊重的群体，我知道我的电影有它自己的魅力。我在现场说，我小时候眼睛有点失焦，不知道是被水汽模糊，还是记忆本身就模糊的，我看到的东西不太清晰，我想用电影把掉落的镜片捡起来，慢慢看清楚旁边的世界。

深焦：我也是一个杭州人，能感到强烈的杭州气息。我喜欢李森林趴在地板上，吃西瓜，吹风扇，练习滑旱冰，到花鸟市场买乌龟，所以这可以说是一个夏天的故事。

祝新：我就想拍⼀个暑假的故事，我觉得我的暑假⼀点也不⽼套。写故事那段时间，我经常盯着家⾥堆了⼆⼗多都没有⽤的旧家具，我爸留着的，有⼀些就被我编进故事⾥当了道具。那些物件可能不会跟故事黏着得很牢固，⽽是慢慢加进来的。⽐如跳绳是为了体育中考，我⼀定要跳到⼀百⼋⼗多个才是满分，所以每天都要练习。

我记得我⼩时候在楼道⾥跳绳，很多阿姨经过会和我妈聊天，跳绳的摆动的圆圈创造了⼀个属于我⾃⼰的区域。从我熟悉的领域开始发展，这样⽐较得⼼应⼿。整个⽚⼦的氛围是我最开始确定的，⾥⾯的元素都是慢慢浮现的。

深焦：接近结尾的时候，李森林（女）目睹了跳进运河的凶手被捕的过程，缝合了虚构和纪实的边界。这一幕最能体现你所说的“《漫游》是我真实生活的幻影”。你说2009年的这件事给你留下很深刻的印象，自己的父亲是业余冬泳选手，仿佛和跳入运河的男人有某种奇怪的联系。

祝新：“真实⽣活的幻影”其实不是指⽚⼦本⾝，⽽是制作的过程。因为我做这个⽚⼦太久了，都是我⼀个⼈⾯对这个⽚⼦的后期⼯作，《漫游》就变成了我过去⽣活，甚⾄过去两年⽣活很重要的⼀部分，就像⼀个幻影⼀样，⼀直拖在⾝后。其实2009年的时间点和事情是我编造的。09年这个时间点是在奥运前后，我对于红旗这类东西的印象会更深刻，刚好是⼩学刚毕业，我感觉故事应该发⽣在那个时候，我脑袋⾥的时间感会更清晰⼀点。 

⾥⾯的视频不是真实的抓逃犯的视频，⽽是消防队员救援的视频，戴⼿铐的是⼀个轻⽣者不是凶⼿，⼿铐是为了防⽌他继续轻⽣。这个视频的素材是制⽚在帮消防队员做拍摄任务的时候偶然看到的，我决定把这段视频放到电影⾥，我想亲眼⽬睹⼀下这个事情。

我觉得最重要的问题就是你说的“奇怪的联系”，当时我⼩学，⼀堂语⽂课是去⼀个有巨⼤弧形镜⼦的阶梯教室上，整个公开课都很正常，但上完那个课我总觉得有种奇怪的感觉，结果⾛出教室之后，突然看到我爸爸从教室后⾯的⼀个门⾥⾛出来，表扬我表现很好。我⾛到教室的后⾯，原来镜⼦的反⾯是玻璃，也就是⼀⾯玻璃⼀⾯镜⼦的装置。当时的感觉遗留了很久：有⼈单向地和我对话，但是我不能和他沟通。

在故事⾥，很多事情都像阶梯教室的这⾯镜⼦。秋秋阿姨和李森林，荒岛和森林家的电视机，都是沟通的界限，有的时候被阻断，有的时候意外被打通。也跟这个城市给我的感觉⼀样。

深焦：电影里生和死界限仿佛是不存在的，李森林（女）有夏日吃瓜的少女时光，也见到楼下送花圈的叔叔阿姨，看见死人奔跑的灵异时刻，还有李森林（男）突然幻化的人形纸张。

祝新：三年前，我在印度的⽡拉纳西背包旅⾏，离开的那天我在恒河边的Burning Ghat（焚⼫岸）突然看到了罕见的⼀幕，⼀个⽆名的男⼈的⾝体被抬到岸⼜，听说在街头离奇死去，没有⼈知道他的⾝份，也没有⼈来认领，于是他没有办法跟别的⼫体⼀样被⽩布包裹⽽是裸露在外直接被焚烧，随即抛洒⼊河中。这是我第⼀次这样直⾯死亡，我的记忆⾥，他的⾝体就像⼀⽚⿊⾊的漩涡，不停地低沉下去，缓缓消逝。

我不敢再去描述任何⼀个细节，那场⾯有⼀种尖锐的东西刺到我，那些失去的⾝体，在漫游时就是⽆法忽略的阴影。⽽死亡之所以是件很重要的事情，是因为它让我没有保留地变得脆弱和敏感，让我变得很坦诚。

深焦：电影里有许多杭州及其周边熟悉的地点，比如千岛湖，浙工大的雕像，老和山，你是如何选择这些景观？

祝新：我觉得杭州最特别的⼀点就是，⽣活区离风景区很近，又是⼀个相对发达的城市。前⾯我说漫游像个公园，其实它就是我⾃⼰画的⼀张杭州地图。其实开拍前确实画过整个⽚⼦发⽣地点图，可能翻过那座⼭（嫁接的⼭，⼭顶是⽼和⼭，中间是黄龙洞，好⼏座⼭的景剪辑起来的），就有⼀个⼩岛（在千岛湖），他们互相联通，⾃由地⽣成。不过这三四年时间变化太⼤了，很多街道被拓宽⼏倍成⼤马路，我感觉到陌⽣，也不是很喜欢，⼀点都不美，有种塑料、流质的感觉。

我还是喜欢我曾经待过的地⽅，那些⾃然景观是相对永恒、坚硬的，我应该⽤电影保留下来。

深焦：我看《漫游》的时候，觉得空气都是湿润的。李森林（女）说爸爸身上有水泡味，跟踪爸爸掉进喷泉弄得一身湿，秋秋阿姨是运河跑船的，凶杀犯最后跳进运河，一切都和水有关。

祝新：我本来就⽣活在⼀个⽔域多的南⽅，我的很多记忆是充满⽔汽的。我⼩时候在运河边游荡，奶奶规定我从早上到中午，要绕整个运河⾛⼀圈，否则不能回家。我还有⼀个在公园⾥溺⽔的经历，不⼩⼼掉到⽔坑⾥，我没有办法发出声⾳，⾃⼰就懵了，过了⼀分钟不到才有⼈来救我。

这些关于⽔的记忆在湿度适宜的时候重逢了。我⾮常喜欢蔡明亮的《河流》，特别天才的⼀部作品，⼀部拍电动扶梯和⽗亲最感动我的电影。我就特别希望拍⼀个⽔汽丰盈的电影。我就觉得⽔应该存在在⽚⼦⾥，它其实是很有绘画性的元素。

深焦：《漫游》的演员应该都是素人吧？你是如何挑选出她们，又是如何将她们准确地呈现在电影里？

祝新：我妈是我读的初中的历史⽼师，准备拍⽚的时候，她花了很多时间帮我在她⾝边物⾊演员，包括朋友、学⽣、同事、家长，挑选的过程还蛮有意思的。森林（姜郦）是我妈的学⽣，她第⼀个给我推荐，说这个⼩姑娘挺有表演欲望的。我当时就跑到⼩⼥孩家⾥，跟她⽗母讲。她⽗母说，我要想清楚这个⽚⼦会怎么⾛，顺便把我教育了⼀番。我跟他们说会尽我全⼒拍好，他们才放⼼。拍摄⼏乎全程妈妈都会陪着她，我妈有时会来⽚场帮忙，⼥孩还会叫她⽼师，整个氛围是有点神奇的。 

⼩波同志是学校的科学⽼师，初中时带过我的科学课，也是认识的，我们在实验室排练了⼀个晚上，他就跟我去拍这个戏了。秋秋阿姨是我制⽚⼈王靖渊的妈妈。⽚⼦⾥的妈妈是我妈以前的同学。我跟他们沟通很多，还是蛮顺畅的。不过不是让他们理解整个⽚⼦，他们甚⾄从头到尾都不知道这是个什么故事，⽽是在那个情境下，我会揣摩他们的想法。最重要的是在相处了以后，我对他们都有⼀些了解，在表演上有顺应他们个性的地⽅，所以最后也会出来顺应⽚⼦感觉的表演。⽐如说秋秋阿姨第⼀天拍摄的时候对森林显得特别紧张，逐渐地熟悉起来。

深焦：在你最早一版海报里，小乌龟是其中主角，而小乌龟在电影中消失和再现似乎也是电影中最重要事件之一。

祝新：说不上是象征什么。乌龟在片子里是一个角色间通话的工具。它的出现是因为乌龟是我和我身边的朋友小时候最常会养的一种动物。我觉得乌龟这种宠物平时很沉默，也不发什么声音，但好像在计划着什么事情。

有一次，我小时候养乌龟的时候，发现它消失了，三四天怎么也找不到很沮丧，不过我没有去花鸟市场再买一个，因为我对旧乌龟的情感还挺深的。结果一周后在阳台的花盆边找到了它的尸体，已经变成了空龟壳，当时我很伤心，把它埋到花盆里又在想，它是怎么爬到那么高的地方去的。我在想它是不是想了什么事情，可能是去迁徙。这个事情我印象深刻，也慢慢融进了故事中。

乌龟像带来故事的小使者，它让我思考到了一个小生命的脆弱。它在片子里穿梭在李森林的梦，作文，和床底下，乌龟爬行得很慢，但是瞬间出现在这里那里，我觉得是很合理的。

深焦：李森林（男）为何钟爱写下自己的名字？ 森林，红旗，彩琴，秋秋，小波，名字在电影中都有什么意味？

祝新：李森林是我最开始就想好的人名，我觉得很漂亮，也不知道为什么。森林，红旗，彩旗这些，都是蛮简单脱口而出的，我不希望故事里的人名很复杂。

名字在我电影里不只是一个称呼，更像一个具体的画面或者一种节奏，会让你觉得有颜色，甚至有背景音乐。想名字的时候我一直在听音乐，比如片尾曲我在拍之前就听了1000多遍找到感觉。

深焦：字幕卡里插入的航天故事是不是红旗的作文？

祝新：是的。编剧⼩时候⽐较喜欢玩红⾊警戒，后⾯红旗作⽂⾥⾯的“基洛夫”飞艇就是游戏⾥⾯⼀个飞船的名字。⼩⼥孩最后应该是在翱翔的状态俯瞰这个故事，就像画杭州地图⼀样，她飞起来才能看到整张地图。其实⽚⼦⾥的画也提⽰过，她很希望能坐在那个飞船上，哪怕跟哥哥去抢。她最后在作⽂⾥实现了这个愿望。我希望观众在看的时候，尽管没有飞起来的画⾯，但是能感觉到。她通过作⽂实现了飞⾏，我也可以通过这个电影实现飞⾏。

深焦：《漫游》配乐特别让人印象深刻。

祝新：配乐是监制周老师给我介绍的陶桢老师，陶老师是一个职业爵士乐手和业余大提琴手，他从来没有做过电影配乐，也对这样一个私人的表达感兴趣，我预感他肯定会做得很动听，而且他之前跟老婆做的EP《侦探小说》就很好。配乐里面有陶老师柔软的感受，很巧的是他的小宝宝也在做配乐的时候出生了，我们只打过一通电话，没有太多的交流，他应该都懂。

深焦：我想提一下《漫游》几款海报，都特别好看，是你自己做的吗？

祝新：海报设计主要是我跟我女朋友。我是因为做海报认识她的，我问她这个海报多少钱，她想无偿做，看完电影后还和我交流想法。这部电影像我生命中的一部分，融入更多人和更多生命经验。

她是中国美院国画系人物专业的，我找她是希望片子里有老老的感觉。希望找到懂这种感觉的同龄人，他们可能站在另外一极，看到和我不同的东西。后来几版海报还有我短片的男主角也加入一起设计，我希望海报有山水，又有现代想象。我自己学画画出身的，对片子的美学上的追求会比较苛刻。

深焦：最后一个问题，谈谈你喜欢的导演吧。

祝新：大学那时觉得库布里克是挚爱了，他的《巴里林登》永远会是我最喜欢的电影。我记得大一第一次在电影院看这片，结尾那段“现已平等归土”字幕之后，音乐响起，他名字跳出来的时候太震撼了，有种失落的感觉，我回去整个人走路像在跳舞。

凯莉·雷査德拍得也很好，她是少有那种有灵性的导演，还有莫里斯皮亚拉的《张口结舌》，很强。阿彼察邦的《正午显影》和《综合症与一百年》让我眼前一亮、许多葡萄牙和南美的导演，像戈麦斯我也很喜欢，不愿被规训的。当然还有蔡明亮，我爱《河流》。

-FIN-

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